I discussed this problem of God and his son of Christianity and Allah and his messenger of Islam with respect to a question posed to me in the FB in Telugu. The questions was the following – Are Gods and the Heaven or Hell they speak of in Abrahamic religions and in Hinduism the same or different and where do the prophets fit in our world view?
I shall try to answer briefly here. We do not have to go to Puranas at the first stage of the argument. If you go to Puranas and the Bible and the Quran the differences are glaring. Just compare the creation account in Matsya Purana and Genesis. I did it in one Telugu essay by asking them just to compare the descriptions without my comments. May be I should write it in English someday.
Hindus feel they should be the same obviously because sound logic defies multiple Gods. If a Hindu becomes a Christian how can his creator change? But the logics employed by Abrahamic religions and Hinduism are different. Let us take the propositions God exists and God does not exist. Gods exist. Is God Masculine, Feminine or Neuter gender? God does not exist has a very weak logical basis. God exists is more or less true. Gods exist is absolutely true. Polytheism is on any day more logical than monotheism. Then Christian and Muslim Gods are members of that set. The prophets have their place in the drama of the world (jagannataka). This drama has its sutradhari (director). I shall discuss these in another post.
I shall try to answer briefly here. We do not have to go to Puranas at the first stage of the argument. If you go to Puranas and the Bible and the Quran the differences are glaring. Just compare the creation account in Matsya Purana and Genesis. I did it in one Telugu essay by asking them just to compare the descriptions without my comments. May be I should write it in English someday.
Hindus feel they should be the same obviously because sound logic defies multiple Gods. If a Hindu becomes a Christian how can his creator change? But the logics employed by Abrahamic religions and Hinduism are different. Let us take the propositions God exists and God does not exist. Gods exist. Is God Masculine, Feminine or Neuter gender? God does not exist has a very weak logical basis. God exists is more or less true. Gods exist is absolutely true. Polytheism is on any day more logical than monotheism. Then Christian and Muslim Gods are members of that set. The prophets have their place in the drama of the world (jagannataka). This drama has its sutradhari (director). I shall discuss these in another post.
Musings - 7 (2 July)
దేవుడు ఉన్నాడా లేడా అన్న చర్చను కొంతదూరంవరకు తీసుకుని వెళ్ళాం. ప్రమేయం అప్రమేయుడైన దేముడు. ప్రమాణాలు - అనుమానం, శబ్దం, ఉపమానం. మన వాదనలో ఇవన్నిటినీ వ్యాఖ్యాతలు తాము గుర్తించకుండానే ఉపయోగించారు. ఎవరివాదనయినా సరియైనది, కాదు అని ఎలా నిర్ణయించడం? వాదన సహజ గుణం. ముఖ్యంగా భారతీయులకి. అమర్త్యసెన్ Argumenative Indian అనే పుస్తకమే వ్రాశాడు. చర్చ కేవలం సత్యాన్వేషణకే ఉపయోగిస్తే దానిని వాదం అంటారు. నమ్మకాలు వేరు. ఇప్పటికి అమెరికాలో భూమి బల్లపరుపు గా ఉంటుంది అనే వాళు, Flat Earth Society బైబిలులో చెప్పిన సృష్టి కథ యే నిజం అనే వాళ్ళు creationists ఉన్నారు. మన వేదాంత చర్చలో విఖ్యాతమైనది శంకరాచార్యులు, మీమాంసకుడు మండన మిశ్రుడు మధ్య జరిగిన వాదం. ఇది జ్ఞాన మార్గము వైదిక కర్మ లలో ఏది ఉత్తమమైనది? అన్నది విషయం. ఉభయ భారతి (మండన మిశ్రుని భార్య) మధ్యవర్తి. శంకరుడు జయిస్తే మండన మిశ్రుడు ఆయన శిష్యుడు అవుతాడు. ఒకరు తన సిద్ధాంతమే సరియైనది అని వాదిస్తే అది జల్పం. ఇక తనకో సిద్ధాంతం లేక పోయినా ఎదుటవ్యక్తి వాదంలో తప్పు ఉన్నదని నిరూపించడమే వితండ వాదం. ఇది బాగా ప్రచారంలో ఉన్న పదం.
దేవుడు ఉన్నాడా లేడా అన్న చర్చను కొంతదూరంవరకు తీసుకుని వెళ్ళాం. ప్రమేయం అప్రమేయుడైన దేముడు. ప్రమాణాలు - అనుమానం, శబ్దం, ఉపమానం. మన వాదనలో ఇవన్నిటినీ వ్యాఖ్యాతలు తాము గుర్తించకుండానే ఉపయోగించారు. ఎవరివాదనయినా సరియైనది, కాదు అని ఎలా నిర్ణయించడం? వాదన సహజ గుణం. ముఖ్యంగా భారతీయులకి. అమర్త్యసెన్ Argumenative Indian అనే పుస్తకమే వ్రాశాడు. చర్చ కేవలం సత్యాన్వేషణకే ఉపయోగిస్తే దానిని వాదం అంటారు. నమ్మకాలు వేరు. ఇప్పటికి అమెరికాలో భూమి బల్లపరుపు గా ఉంటుంది అనే వాళు, Flat Earth Society బైబిలులో చెప్పిన సృష్టి కథ యే నిజం అనే వాళ్ళు creationists ఉన్నారు. మన వేదాంత చర్చలో విఖ్యాతమైనది శంకరాచార్యులు, మీమాంసకుడు మండన మిశ్రుడు మధ్య జరిగిన వాదం. ఇది జ్ఞాన మార్గము వైదిక కర్మ లలో ఏది ఉత్తమమైనది? అన్నది విషయం. ఉభయ భారతి (మండన మిశ్రుని భార్య) మధ్యవర్తి. శంకరుడు జయిస్తే మండన మిశ్రుడు ఆయన శిష్యుడు అవుతాడు. ఒకరు తన సిద్ధాంతమే సరియైనది అని వాదిస్తే అది జల్పం. ఇక తనకో సిద్ధాంతం లేక పోయినా ఎదుటవ్యక్తి వాదంలో తప్పు ఉన్నదని నిరూపించడమే వితండ వాదం. ఇది బాగా ప్రచారంలో ఉన్న పదం.
Rajput Yodhya - Hinduism is purely monotheistic. In every scripture you'll find the phrase "One without a second". Hindus just need to understand the difference between Ishvar (God) and the Devatas (demi-Gods). The Devatas are divine beings which were created by God to rule the kingdom of heaven, Indra is the king of demi-Gods and worships Ishvar. Ishvar also has many many divine manifestations.
VVS Sarma
This status is extremely confusing and illustrates the level of confusion typical of many Hindus today. We are mixing up terminology of Christians, inadequate English terms, terms of ISKCON and to see it we must analyse the whole passage line by line.
1. Hinduism is purely monotheistic. What is great about this description? “Theos” is from word Deva. Deva, Devatha, Daiva .. are terms have overlapping meanings. Who is God of Rigveda? Indra, Varuna, Agni, Vayu, …. Which God created them? What is wrong with many Gods? Siva, Vishnu, Krishna, Rama, Hanuman … Today even Shirdi Saibaba is competing for that slot? What is wrong in calling Hinduism is polytheistic or pantheistic?
2. Is Kasi Visvanatha God or Puri Jagannatha or Tirupati Venkatesvara? Are they one and the same?
3. If you are talking about God – Why should it mean only Iswara? Why not Parameswara, Paramatmaa, Paramapurusha, Brahman, Atman … ? What is the difference?
4. What is Kingdom of Heaven? It is a Christian term. It has nothing to do with Hinduism. What is meant by Devatas ruling it? Some sort of Council of Devatas! What is Heaven?
5. The Devatas are divine beings which were created by God. Which God? Brahma – Can we call him God or is he a demigod, in the above terminology?
VVS Sarma
This status is extremely confusing and illustrates the level of confusion typical of many Hindus today. We are mixing up terminology of Christians, inadequate English terms, terms of ISKCON and to see it we must analyse the whole passage line by line.
1. Hinduism is purely monotheistic. What is great about this description? “Theos” is from word Deva. Deva, Devatha, Daiva .. are terms have overlapping meanings. Who is God of Rigveda? Indra, Varuna, Agni, Vayu, …. Which God created them? What is wrong with many Gods? Siva, Vishnu, Krishna, Rama, Hanuman … Today even Shirdi Saibaba is competing for that slot? What is wrong in calling Hinduism is polytheistic or pantheistic?
2. Is Kasi Visvanatha God or Puri Jagannatha or Tirupati Venkatesvara? Are they one and the same?
3. If you are talking about God – Why should it mean only Iswara? Why not Parameswara, Paramatmaa, Paramapurusha, Brahman, Atman … ? What is the difference?
4. What is Kingdom of Heaven? It is a Christian term. It has nothing to do with Hinduism. What is meant by Devatas ruling it? Some sort of Council of Devatas! What is Heaven?
5. The Devatas are divine beings which were created by God. Which God? Brahma – Can we call him God or is he a demigod, in the above terminology?
Vvs Sarma One without second is Brahman – it is nirguna, nirakara, niranajana – nameless, formless, activity-less quality-less. You can only characterize it as neti, neti (not this, not this).
When the idea of creation comes it becomes two – prakriti, purusha (nature and jiva) – if name is to be given kameswara-kameswari – kama – desire to create
At the next step Maha Vishnu in the ocean of Milk – fully understanding the nature of Brahman and its perturbation making it the duality of creation, unless there is duality, there is no creation.
Then he creates Brahma – Rudra for creation and dissolution periodically in the infinite wheel of time (ananta kala cakra) and a quarter of his own power called Vishnu together forming trinity (trimurti) in the bounded set Brahmanda – There are many such Brahmandas. From Brahmanda – Martanda is born. (Sun one of 12 Adityas)
Brahma starts with creation – first mind born persons, then rishis, then prajapatis, manus, and 14 lokas – earth and six above it (urdhva loka) aand seven nether worlds.
Urdhva lokas - Bhu – Bhuva –Suvar – Maha – Jana –Tapa – Satya loka – abode of Brahma – above Vaikuntha, Kailasa, Manidvipa
After dissolution another cycle of creation starts
When the idea of creation comes it becomes two – prakriti, purusha (nature and jiva) – if name is to be given kameswara-kameswari – kama – desire to create
At the next step Maha Vishnu in the ocean of Milk – fully understanding the nature of Brahman and its perturbation making it the duality of creation, unless there is duality, there is no creation.
Then he creates Brahma – Rudra for creation and dissolution periodically in the infinite wheel of time (ananta kala cakra) and a quarter of his own power called Vishnu together forming trinity (trimurti) in the bounded set Brahmanda – There are many such Brahmandas. From Brahmanda – Martanda is born. (Sun one of 12 Adityas)
Brahma starts with creation – first mind born persons, then rishis, then prajapatis, manus, and 14 lokas – earth and six above it (urdhva loka) aand seven nether worlds.
Urdhva lokas - Bhu – Bhuva –Suvar – Maha – Jana –Tapa – Satya loka – abode of Brahma – above Vaikuntha, Kailasa, Manidvipa
After dissolution another cycle of creation starts
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